There is a common scary experience in insight meditation where one has the realization that one doesn’t Exist. have you experienced this and how have you dealt with it?
It's something I've had to deal with myself. And at some point, I just thought it is cool to not exist. Why not? To experience a point 'of nonexistence' in your practice and meditation is deep stuff. People pay a lot of money and travel all over the world to experience something like this. We can feel blessed.
I don't pretend to be a teacher of some kind. But I believe sitting with fear is one of the best reasons for meditation. Maybe this comes from just where I am, sitting on death row, right? No matter, go to it and sit at its feet. Why not?
In Buddhist circles I was involved in I realized it was okay to feel fear. You will emerge wiser but make sure you have some support.
can you name some black figures you admired BEFORE IMPRISOnment? Who are they now?
Harriet Tubman, Langston Hughes, W.E.B. DuBois, and especially James Baldwin. He’s tops! He had this dynamic political mind and wasn’t scared of anything! I had him in my back pocket and would read him aloud. (He’s not Black but also) Joseph Campbell.
Over time, more heroes included Dr. Cornel West, Muhammad Ali, Alice Walker, Zora Neale Hurston, the Congresswoman Barbara Jordan. (Again, not Black but historian Howard Zinn.)
People sometimes ask me about Black Buddhists. I talk about how Martin Luther King’s work was a great example of bodhisattva action.
WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR INTERESTS OUTSIDE OF WRITING & BUDDHiSM?
Astronomy. World History. I love history books, especially biographies: about Malcolm X, Howard Hughes, Winston Churchill, the Rothschild family, etc. I love maps of ancient trade routes. I’ve seen whole countries disappear (off the map)! I like seeing how geography changes, how terrorities and borders change, or combine or separate. Especially the Balkans, Ural Mountains. I go to the darnest places. I’m a nerd!
1970s soul music. Country music. For all the stories they tell. “Roses For Mama” by Red Sovine makes me cry. You should see my CD collection: George Strait, Reba, Tim McGraw, Patsy Cline, Blake Shelton, Loretta Lynn, Terry Mcbride.
Sports: baseball, football, basketball. If my life had gone another way, I would’ve loved to have been a sports scout for college teams.
DO YOU THINK the u.s. congress should create a criminal justice commission to investigate wrongful convictions?
I do. I hope we can get the criminal justice system to move in this direction. At this point though, the system is very slow to admit that innocent men and women exist in prisons throughout the U.S. That’s why investigative and independent journalism is so important and why advocacy and research is so vital. The public is usually stunned to hear these facts and figures. It’s hard to right these wrongs, but we have to.
DO YOU YOU FEEL KARMA FROM PAST LIVES HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SITUATION, or for that matter, any of our situations?
I’m not someone to dwell on my karma (or karma in general) as ‘payback’ for whatever good or bad actions done in the past. Whatever I’ve done in my past life or only an hour ago generates in me a determination to do better with my life now, and to look at the power I have to create or end suffering now. The teaching on karma motivates me to be mindful with my life; it’s the big brother, big sister in my head to keep me safe and well, egging me to do right. It reminds me I can always do better by me, keeping real the vow I’ve taken for the benefit of others.
have you ever considered bringing your case to the united nations?
I’m not sure if that’s a possibility but I wonder what that would look like. The U.S. could not face that kind of embarrassment, that’s for sure.
what can people around the world do to support you as you now take your case to the U.S. Supreme Court?
Thank you for your important question. I would like to ask folks what they think they can specifically do. It’s something I and my future legal team will be thinking about. For now, the other pages on my website urge people to learn the facts and get involved with the larger movement for social justice for our youth and those who are incarcerated.
WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE IS OUR HUMAN BIrthright?
To breathe. If you don’t breathe, you have no rights. Air is the first rule of life. If that’s not the first rule, I have no idea what is.
Are YOU presently working on any new book projects or do you plan to in the near future?
Yes, I am. I have a book of fiction, currently unpublished. I’m also compiling a new collection of unpublished stories and essays.
WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS UPON RELEASE?
I would like to take it one day at a time, but we all do what we know. I’m not going to try to be a welder, farmer or learn how to kayak and give people kayaking lessons. If I have over 35 years of experience in prisons, I would like to be out in juvenile halls and the community—be right in those youths’ faces to let them know ‘we got this.’
IF THERE WAS JUST one thing you could tell people, what would it be?
What I would try to get across is that despite what any of us thinks about the troubles in our lives, there is always someone who has it far worse. I would ask people to find gratitude no matter how hopeless things feel—just keep counting your blessings, no matter how hard it is to do, and stay mindful of others who are less fortunate.
What was the first thing you felt walking into San Quentin?
To find home in San Quentin I had to summon an unbelievable will to survive. My first step was to flush the toilet. To my surprise I found all I needed to clean my cell in the fish-kit-a towel, face cloth, and a box of state detergent. There were also a bar of state soap, a toothbrush and comb, a small can of powdered toothpaste, a small plastic cup, and two twenty-year-old National Geographic magazines, one of them from the month and year of my birth.
It seemed that time was now on my side. I started cleaning vigorously. I began with one wall, then went on to the next, scrubbing them from top to bottom as hard as I could to remove the markings and filth. I didn't stop until I had washed them down to the floor and they were spotless. If I had to sleep in here, this was the least I could do. The cell bars, sink and toilet, and floor got the same treatment. I was especially worried about the toilet. I had heard that prisoners were compelled to wash their faces in their toilets whenever tear gas was shot into the units to break up mass disruptions and the water was turned off. I imagined leaning into this toilet, and I cleaned it to the highest military standards.
I spent hours, sometimes on my hands and knees, washing down every inch of my cell-even the ceiling. When I had finished, I was convinced that I could eat a piece of candy that had dropped onto the floor. The roaches had all drowned or been killed. I blocked off all their hiding places by plugging up the holes and cracks in the walls with wet toilet paper.
How do you love a mother like you had?
I never learned how not to love the mother I had. I was placed in a foster home at 5 years old and my foster mother Mamie never let me forget my mother, to love her always. I felt extremely sad for my mother. And even years later, after I stopped praying, there was no doubt in my mind that my mother had been sick, a heroin addict, etc. I saw her as a victim.
What do you think about at night?
For decades now I have used the night for my Buddhist practice and meditation. In the past I've also spent the night writing, while other times I've been awakened by the sound of an alarm signaling that someone had hung themselves in their cell. Afterwards, I would lay down and unable to do anything else, just think of the daylight and the innocent on death row.
What would you say to us at our school if you could visit?
I believe that the most important message for any school is to teach and show kids that EVERYONE MATTERS, including those who have never been given a chance to attend school or have been kicked out of every school they’ve ever been to. They matter just as much as anyone else. It might sound simple, like just words, but I’ve seen these words bring out the best in people, and change lives, especially in inner city schools where what is being communicated is often the opposite, which isn’t cool at all.
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